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Team maps Mapmaking Workshop (2v2, 3v3)
Need for new good-quality, competitive maps
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FRenzy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:05 pm  Reply with quote

Updated Jungle Law v0.6 !

Eco was problematic, thus simplifying the layout !
- reduced patches count, while keeping balance in case of FFA. Ore from 45k to 40k/pl. Starting ore unchanged.
- added 2 oil derricks in the center for experimentation

http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&p=303036#303036

EDIt : after a playtest, seems much better !
Not floating anymore, and fight for resources gives a better game.
Give me your opinion if you playtest it !

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FRenzy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:30 am  Reply with quote

Minor update Jungle Law v0.6b
http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&p=303036#303036

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Wippie
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:47 pm  Reply with quote

Updated the Climax map after some playtesting.

http://www.sleipnirstuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=82&p=303186#303186

Also changed the map image to indicate ore spawns and players positions.


Changed:
- Amount of starting ore
- Starting ore horizontal cliffs -> slightly angled
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eskimo
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:45 pm  Reply with quote

@wippie

My full apologies, it seems i had your map mixed up with Mo's Portent which i wasn't keen on at first, however after some refinement from him and playing it, it has swayed my view. It's pretty dumb on my part seeing as this is strictly team based maps and his is a 1v1 map xD

However on to your map. I will give it a few play throughs later as the centre position looks interesting with how close the spawns are but has the separating ridge.

And will check your latest edition out also Frenzy.

If i conclude any opinions from good games i'll post up again regarding either map.
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Wippie
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:58 pm  Reply with quote

eskimo wrote (View Post):
@wippie

My full apologies, it seems i had your map mixed up with Mo's Portent which i wasn't keen on at first, however after some refinement from him and playing it, it has swayed my view. It's pretty dumb on my part seeing as this is strictly team based maps and his is a 1v1 map xD

However on to your map. I will give it a few play throughs later as the centre position looks interesting with how close the spawns are but has the separating ridge.

And will check your latest edition out also Frenzy.

If i conclude any opinions from good games i'll post up again regarding either map.


Don't worry about it. I actually thought you had a point and made a change to the islands. Gonna playtest with this for a while before considering to change it back.

I placed a screenshot of the map on page 3 to prevent it from happening again Smile

@Frenzy, I like that you changed the rivers on jungle law. It is so much easier on the eye now.

For the actual gameplay, I gave it a go and I think this map might become very popular amongst the big crowd.

I would like to propose 1 suggestion:
- Consider the two top spawns. There are ridges in between but they are quite horizontal and therefore not blocking moving armies at all. You might consider widening up these ridges or placing them in a bit of an angle for example.
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FRenzy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:07 am  Reply with quote

@Wippie :

Playtesting your map currently. 2 replays already :
01 https://www.gamereplays.org/openra/replays.php?game=92&show=details&id=322087
02 https://www.gamereplays.org/openra/replays.php?game=92&show=details&id=322088


It looks cool already, gameplay is nice. Enough expansions to get to. 2 routes to fight, some back and forth actions, all nice Smile I think this map has good potential ! Players and me seem to like it.

I would point out a few points of improvements :
- Eco : harvesting paths can be a bit difficult. Sometimes harvesters wander into enemy base, get blocked by 1 unit a the 1 cell entry, etc ...

I feel some mines will be avoided by players, and others privilegied.

Also, I think that back players have a hard time reaching their 2-mines starting patch, compared to central players.

***EDIT : I played the v1 lol Laughing . Actually on v2, back players seem in better position, as central players 1-mine patch is longer to harvest (and more exposed)***

And player "D" is a disadvantage getting his 1-mine starting patch (north), compared to pl."B" (south), he has to be extremely careful with ref placement (see the debris)

- Lanes : 1st game against T and Potato : I had a lot of back and forth between north and south, which is good. But in other circumstances, could result in a stalemate, if those 2 positions (mid north and mid south) are locked. There are no other lanes for flanking, unless you unlock one of those postions (see game 2), then you can flank main bases.


Maybe : add 0,5 / 1 lane to each existing lane (bigger map vertically) ? use the islands, with a new bridge ?
(I don't count central gem / ore passages as lanes, they're too easily lockable with a turret)

- There might be a little "mid-or-die" situation for each lane, on the 2-mines expansions. Maybe change a bit ore distribution, to make them less essential


We're getting somewhere ! Keep the good work Smile

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FRenzy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:27 am  Reply with quote

@Materia

Playtested your map, only in skirmish as a start :
01 - https://www.gamereplays.org/openra/replays.php?game=92&show=details&id=322089

The visual concept is interesting, 3-lanes map, there's navy battles, all good Smile

A few points of improvement I've seen :
- Eco : the map is extremely high eco ^^ My macro was on auto-pilot mode, I hadn't to worry much about expansions and eco .
I think this is due to the number of mines (gem mines). For instance, in the mid there are 8 gem mines I think, which would be enough for an entire 3-players team for a entire game, normally. So, on the entire map, there is too much mines. (see how the gem expands super fast)

IMO, I would just (at least !) cut in half the amount of mines, and oil :p
Also, I would make things less too central. Right now, it's "mid-or-die", most of the money is in the mid of the lanes. I would put half of it behind the players, so they should choose to go behind (safe) or to take mid from enemy.

(I realized there's a gem mine north west, but not south east, might be a bug ! )

- Construction : there are some annoying debris and small construction space in many places. The idea of killing buildings to get space is interesting. But sometimes debris, trees get in the way. Look at my deploying MCVs throughout the game.

- Lanes : for each base, there is only two entry points, that are so easy to protect, espacially for an allied player. See the AI in front of me, spamming pills and arties.

Maybe need more entry points, or wider ones, or more lanes ... up to you !



Keep it up man ! Smile

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FRenzy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:32 am  Reply with quote

Wippie wrote (View Post):

@Frenzy, I like that you changed the rivers on jungle law. It is so much easier on the eye now.

For the actual gameplay, I gave it a go and I think this map might become very popular amongst the big crowd.



Thanks man Grin Glad that you like it !
I also think 0.6b is quite good :p and I'm feeling that this is almost the final version, in terms of layout.
I might add some additional oil, tweak things a bit ... but in general it's almost done.

Next step will be enhancing the visual aspect ^^

Wippie wrote (View Post):


I would like to propose 1 suggestion:
- Consider the two top spawns. There are ridges in between but they are quite horizontal and therefore not blocking moving armies at all. You might consider widening up these ridges or placing them in a bit of an angle for example.


Will look at it, thanks !

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Wippie
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:43 pm  Reply with quote

FRenzy wrote (View Post):
@Wippie :

Playtesting your map currently. 2 replays already :
01 https://www.gamereplays.org/openra/replays.php?game=92&show=details&id=322087
02 https://www.gamereplays.org/openra/replays.php?game=92&show=details&id=322088


It looks cool already, gameplay is nice. Enough expansions to get to. 2 routes to fight, some back and forth actions, all nice Smile I think this map has good potential ! Players and me seem to like it.

I would point out a few points of improvements :
- Eco : harvesting paths can be a bit difficult. Sometimes harvesters wander into enemy base, get blocked by 1 unit a the 1 cell entry, etc ...

I feel some mines will be avoided by players, and others privilegied.

Also, I think that back players have a hard time reaching their 2-mines starting patch, compared to central players.

***EDIT : I played the v1 lol Laughing . Actually on v2, back players seem in better position, as central players 1-mine patch is longer to harvest (and more exposed)***

And player "D" is a disadvantage getting his 1-mine starting patch (north), compared to pl."B" (south), he has to be extremely careful with ref placement (see the debris)

- Lanes : 1st game against T and Potato : I had a lot of back and forth between north and south, which is good. But in other circumstances, could result in a stalemate, if those 2 positions (mid north and mid south) are locked. There are no other lanes for flanking, unless you unlock one of those postions (see game 2), then you can flank main bases.


Maybe : add 0,5 / 1 lane to each existing lane (bigger map vertically) ? use the islands, with a new bridge ?
(I don't count central gem / ore passages as lanes, they're too easily lockable with a turret)

- There might be a little "mid-or-die" situation for each lane, on the 2-mines expansions. Maybe change a bit ore distribution, to make them less essential


We're getting somewhere ! Keep the good work Smile


Excellent stuff!

Thanks for providing the demo's. I like the fact the games are action packed and the middle diamonds are mined on and off as intentioned Smile. The patchfinding on the center starting points to the regular ore mines is horrible indeed, and I noticed the flaw.

Got some great ideas to implenent. Will work on your suggestions during the next week.

Cheers!
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Bruudwin
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: heres my maps Reply with quote

i dunno how to png or whatever you're doing for images. i dont forum \ reddit stuff much.

just openra map link to my maps in question.


all my maps are even mirrored equilateral etc. it was annoying as fuck making them before that copy n paste option was implemented in latest update!

2v2 maps
Bomberman (4) http://resource.openra.net/maps/21597/
Super Simple Duel (4) http://resource.openra.net/maps/21207/
Snow Wombat http://resource.openra.net/maps/21064/
Watching Stones http://resource.openra.net/maps/21119/
No Belly Buttons http://resource.openra.net/maps/21122/
Mirror Mirror http://resource.openra.net/maps/21129/

3v3
Sea Turtle http://resource.openra.net/maps/21154/
Pie and Slices http://resource.openra.net/maps/21063/
Super Simple Duel 4 http://resource.openra.net/maps/21124/
Bomberman (6) http://resource.openra.net/maps/21974/


-- not listed. my 1v1, 4v4 maps and the (dead) tiberium dawn maps.
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FRenzy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: heres my maps Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing your maps man. Will add these later on a reference list for map (when I have the time ^^')

Bruudwin wrote (View Post):
i dunno how to png or whatever you're doing for images. i dont forum \ reddit stuff much.


Quick tip if someone wants to know :
I use http://imgur.com/ , then go to my uploaded images, click the one I want to upload : gives you several links.
Choose the one that says BBCode, and you can even choose a thumbnail size.


For screeenshooting, I think native Windows would work, or the OpenRA screenshot command, but I use "Greenshot" software and works well. Then combine images on my image editor.

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Wippie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:30 am  Reply with quote

Does anyone know how to use the resize map command in the Openra-utility?

I tried: C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenRA>OpenRA.Utility.exe ra --resize-map Climaxrev2.oramap 120 100

The application crashes.


This is in the utility.log:
Received args: --resize-map Climaxrev2.oramap 120 100
System.NullReferenceException: De objectverwijzing is niet op een exemplaar van een object ingesteld.
bij OpenRA.FileSystem.ZipFile..ctor(Stream stream, String name, IReadOnlyPackage parent)
bij OpenRA.FileSystem.FileSystem.OpenPackage(String filename, IReadOnlyPackage parent)
bij OpenRA.Mods.Common.UtilityCommands.ResizeMapCommand.OpenRA.IUtilityCommand.Run(Utility utility, String[] args)
bij OpenRA.Program.Main(String[] args)
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FRenzy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:50 am  Reply with quote

Wippie wrote (View Post):
Does anyone know how to use the resize map command in the Openra-utility?

I tried: C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenRA>OpenRA.Utility.exe ra --resize-map Climaxrev2.oramap 120 100


You've put the oramap in the OpenRA folder right ?

I think should be ./Climaxrev2.oramap. If not working, write the whole path :p
(I keep the commands saved in a text file, to copy paste and reuse them)

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Wippie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:21 am  Reply with quote

FRenzy wrote (View Post):
Wippie wrote (View Post):
Does anyone know how to use the resize map command in the Openra-utility?

I tried: C:\Program Files (x86)\OpenRA>OpenRA.Utility.exe ra --resize-map Climaxrev2.oramap 120 100


You've put the oramap in the OpenRA folder right ?

I think should be ./Climaxrev2.oramap. If not working, write the whole path :p
(I keep the commands saved in a text file, to copy paste and reuse them)


Yes I did place it in the OpenRa folder Smile.

Putting in the complete patch did the job! Thanks!
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Blackened
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:03 am  Reply with quote

So this was a map idea I'd be floating in my head for awhile but this thread inspired me too put it to paper. Originally It was going to be a 1v1 map but I found it pretty easy to change it to a 2v2. I present to you, Tyrants

http://i.imgur.com/kn55pSE.png
(screen shot taken ~15 seconds into game)

Important info:
2v2
Size is 122x134
Total ore: 138750*
Spawn ore: 18350
Each player has 3 ore mines in spawn and 1 expansion with 1 ore mine. Each team has an extra safe expansion to the back with around 11k ore and 1 ore mine.
The contestable ore fields each contain 2 ore mines.
6 oils on the map. 4 located in the center with 2 being contestable. 2 in the back lines as well.
Custom rules eliminate civilians spawning from destroyed civilian buildings.

There are a few ideas I threw into the map just to see how they turn out.
First, the aesthetics: It's slightly darker and rainy. Every tree is burned and most the buildings are either destroyed or heavily damaged. The theme(Tyrants) being that this is a very war torn area. To add to this I essentially made prop warfare. There are 2 big towns that creeps automatically attack and after ~10 seconds into the game a creep unit will kill demo trucks destroying all the creeps and heavily damaging the remaining town. Additionally there are prop badgers that instantly crash upon loading creating craters. The point of this all is to make burn marks/smudges on the terrain. If someone knows how to do that without having to have a prop die please tell me! Regardless I think you'll find the atmosphere comes through pretty well.

Secondly the two towns aren't solely props. There is often a who is there first problem with expansions. It can be very hard to push out an already established one. To combat this I included the towns next to the ore and detonated a nuke truck in the ore to reduce the size. (*thus the actual total ore is slightly lower) It probably is still a good idea to try and grab the contestable expansion first but in doing so you are going to be at a slight economic disadvantage. The ore field will be almost dry compared to the safe expansion. Additionally if you choose not to kill the remaining buildings around the ore your economy will be further set back and build space restricted. However, if you do decide to kill the buildings it lets your opponent know you are there.
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