[ X ]
Open Red Alert League Europe
The Europe OpenRA League Discussion
Post new topic   Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2  »
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bimbam2103
Level: 5



Position: Registered User
Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 2
Kel: 3  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Open Red Alert League Europe Reply with quote

Hello everybody Laughing

The XS-Project (eXtreme Servers Project) is working currently on a league system for the region europe.

We are going to make a big matchmaking system for all openra-Players in Europe. The following features are planned:

- Ranking system
- Money system
- League system

To explain the points:

Ranking system

The ranking system works very simple. Every player that makes a ranked match against others gains or loses points. The player with the most points is on 1st place and the other are on places depending on their points.

The rank calculation is also very simple. As example:

Player 1 has 400 points
Player 2 has 340 points

Player 1 wins against player 2:
player 1 gains 1 point / player 2 loses 1 point

Player 2 wins against player 1:
player 2 wins 2 points / player 1 loses 2 points

If a player has 0 points he cannot lose points.

Money system

If a player wants to make the game more interesting he may open a game for money (real money). Then other players may join the game by paying the enter fee. The winner wins the entire pot. Only 1 % of the entire pot goes to XS-Project for providing the servers.

If two players are working in an alliance and they win then the pot will be splittet up to the two players.

The money that a player has won can be payed out to a paypal-account.

League system

XS-Project starts league matches mostly on weekends (exactly dates are currently not planned). There is a enter fee for league matches. Every player has to pay the fee to enter the league. After the league is filled XS-Project sends an information to all league players that the league is filled. Every player knows the qualifying start of the league.

The league will run mostly on weekends so the most players can join the league. The first 3 winners (place 1, 2 and 3) getting the entire pot splitted up to (75%, 20 % and 5%).

The 3 winners are getting also a place in the hall of fame for the specified league.



The matchmaking system is currently in development but almost done. We are providing two languages: German and English.

If someone has wishes or something else just post it here in the forum.

Thank you very much.

bimbam2103
Owner of XS-Project
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by bimbam2103 Send private message ICQ Number
Happy
Level: 34



Position: Registered User
Joined: 06 Jan 2017
Posts: 237
Kel: 271  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:52 pm  Reply with quote

RAGL getting a bit of competition I love it Grin
Im really happy with the competitive scene expanding with new tournaments I look forward to the league system.

I wouldnt just confine it to europe considering the top 8 contains 4 americans Laughing ping and lag is never a problem with out cross atlantic players.
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by Happy Send private message ICQ Number
spetsnaz84
Level: 5


Position: Registered User
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 8
Kel: 8  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:34 pm  Reply with quote

Why not just use ELO-ranking ?
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by spetsnaz84 Send private message ICQ Number
netnazgul
Level: 16



Position: Registered User
Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Posts: 85
Kel: 61  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:54 pm  Reply with quote

spetsnaz84 wrote (View Post):
Why not just use ELO-ranking ?

or even better a Glicko/Glicko-2.

Anyway, there are two additional problems that Elo does not address (afaik Glicko addresses only the latter or even both):
  1. Rating inflation. Long-standing players getting more and more points from newcomers that get into and out of the system frequently, increasing the rating gap between old and new players to a point where rating does not correctly represent the skill.
  2. Rating deterioration. Long-standing players gather a lot of points and then retain their high ranking without playing.


Other than that it looks promising, would like to test the system. Agree with Happy that the playerbase doesn't really need to be confined to a single region, although there could be a problem with split rankings where american players mostly play against each other and european players - in their own timezone, thus creating two almost separate ranking structures that do not correlate to one another.

Ah, another question - how are the game results reported to the system?
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by netnazgul Send private message ICQ Number
SoScared
Undead
Level: 80



Position: Registered User
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1090
Kel: 542  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:40 pm  Reply with quote

That ranking system sounds simple, yet genius! The players on top does not get to race from the flock unless the performance is consistently on the A-game.
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by SoScared Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website ICQ Number
noobmapmaker
Level: 66



Position: Registered User
Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 993
Kel: 338  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:47 pm  Reply with quote

Don't really get the ranking! Can you give another example with different values? Or a general formula? Or is it always with 1 and 2 points?
_________________
Post your fun replays online Gamereplays.org/openra
Consider supporting OpenRA by setting a bounty or by donating for a server
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by noobmapmaker Send private message Send e-mail ICQ Number
SoScared
Undead
Level: 80



Position: Registered User
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 1090
Kel: 542  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:51 pm  Reply with quote

If I understand it correctly the higher ranked player always gives away 2 points per loss but only grabs 1 per win.
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by SoScared Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website ICQ Number
netnazgul
Level: 16



Position: Registered User
Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Posts: 85
Kel: 61  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:17 pm  Reply with quote

SoScared wrote (View Post):
If I understand it correctly the higher ranked player always gives away 2 points per loss but only grabs 1 per win.

all more complex systems have this logic; for example, if k=32 in Elo, equal ranked players will win/lose 16 points against each other, whereas on a rating difference of 500 higher ranked player will only gain 2 points, but can lose 30.
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by netnazgul Send private message ICQ Number
spetsnaz84
Level: 5


Position: Registered User
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 8
Kel: 8  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:06 pm  Reply with quote

netnazgul wrote (View Post):
spetsnaz84 wrote (View Post):
Why not just use ELO-ranking ?

or even better a Glicko/Glicko-2.

Anyway, there are two additional problems that Elo does not address (afaik Glicko addresses only the latter or even both):
  1. Rating inflation. Long-standing players getting more and more points from newcomers that get into and out of the system frequently, increasing the rating gap between old and new players to a point where rating does not correctly represent the skill.
  2. Rating deterioration. Long-standing players gather a lot of points and then retain their high ranking without playing.


Other than that it looks promising, would like to test the system. Agree with Happy that the playerbase doesn't really need to be confined to a single region, although there could be a problem with split rankings where american players mostly play against each other and european players - in their own timezone, thus creating two almost separate ranking structures that do not correlate to one another.

Ah, another question - how are the game results reported to the system?


Ideally this would be integrated in the the openra software where you could see other player's rankings so you know you are more or less in the same league. I often play on chess.com and matchmaking is much better thanks to the ELO ranking (or indeed glicko as you point out).
Now I usually get destroyed by way strong players with much more experience. I don't mind losing but not all of the time.

At the end of each game the software would just report the result to the server (or upload the replay file). Of course, this is not completely safe, it would be easy to hijack someone's username.

Not so easy to make it completely cheat proof I am afraid.

Therefore, it's maybe better to rely on users themselves to report the games but that's a minor hassle for all involved of course.
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by spetsnaz84 Send private message ICQ Number
netnazgul
Level: 16



Position: Registered User
Joined: 10 Jul 2017
Posts: 85
Kel: 61  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:22 pm  Reply with quote

spetsnaz84 wrote (View Post):

Ideally this would be integrated in the the openra software where you could see other player's rankings so you know you are more or less in the same league.

Ideally yes, but it's a long standing issue with noone from devteam currently working on it. I know the hypothetical answers to my question, just want to know how it's planned to work for the OP's system.
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by netnazgul Send private message ICQ Number
SirCake
Level: 40



Position: Registered User
Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 111
Kel: 21  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:41 pm  Reply with quote

Quote:
money

Thats where the legal and fraud issues begin... -.-

_________________
https://i.imgur.com/MZWgrTf.png
Check out my moddb page!
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by SirCake Send private message Send e-mail ICQ Number
Happy
Level: 34



Position: Registered User
Joined: 06 Jan 2017
Posts: 237
Kel: 271  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:52 pm  Reply with quote

SirCake wrote (View Post):
Quote:
money

Thats where the legal and fraud issues begin... -.-


I wonder what raishiwi will do this time Grin Grin
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by Happy Send private message ICQ Number
Raishiwi
Level: 31



Position: Registered User
Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 130
Kel: 114  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:08 pm  Reply with quote

Happy wrote (View Post):

SirCake wrote (View Post):
Quote:
money

Thats where the legal and fraud issues begin... -.-


I wonder what raishiwi will do this time Grin Grin


brb applying for UK citizenship
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by Raishiwi Send private message Send e-mail ICQ Number
JOo
Level: 75



Position: Registered User
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 498
Kel: 95  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:19 pm  Reply with quote

SirCake wrote (View Post):
Quote:
money

Thats where the legal and fraud issues begin... -.-


no surprise when a small gaming-community starts to handle money that they lure all kinds of strange people and weird ideas on board Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by JOo Send private message Send e-mail ICQ Number
bimbam2103
Level: 5



Position: Registered User
Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 2
Kel: 3  [ Donate ]

Online Status: Offline
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:30 am  Reply with quote

Wow... Thank you everybody for your responses.

For the important point of the money system because of fraud.... Yes there is a risk but the risk is on our side.

There are limits to the money system. You can payout only 1500 € per month (fraud prevention) and the payout takes 7 days (hacking prevention). The rules for germany are slightly clear in this way.

To the point (ranking) system. There is a question for 1 and 2 points. Higher ranked players (currently) gain always only one point and lose 2 points (if they are playing against lower players). Maybe we can find a better rule for the point system.

@netnazgul: This logic seems to be fair for example. We think about a better logic because the "high ranked player problem" is also known in our rows. We thought that players they are not playing for a specified time will lose all points. But the rules are not clearly currently.

@noobmapmaker: The formula is really simple Smile

if player A > player B = player A loses 2 points and wins 1 point
if player A < player B = player A loses 1 points and wins 2 points

We are completing the league system but also thinking about a new (better) ranking system. The plan is to create a system that works nearly completely without humen interaction. There are points they cannot be done by a machine like problems with a won match.

Currently the rules are these: All players upload their replay to our servers and if there is a problem that not all players confirm the won player we are looking to the replays and checking the results. We also got the source of openra and checking if there is a possibility to automate the process as example: The game is over then the server (or the client) posts a status to our page.

The simple problem is: We do not have any developers except for PHP Laughing The second Problem is, that all players for our league need a special client and not the official. We do not want to give our players a client that does not work with the official one.

@spetsnaz84: Yes you're right. It is very easy to recode a replay. I looked at the code and it is very easy. So it is not really secure. Thats the point we are looking at the code if there is any way to connect it to our system. But as mentioned above we do not wanna create a new client/server for our purposes. We wanna keep the original, official client.

@openra developers: Maybe there is a way as mentioned above that the client/server sends a response to our league system if the player plays a league/ranked match. We are able to create an api for that. Then the way could be this:

1st Way: Player creates or joins a match on our website and is linked in the client with his account. Then he can see all matches he has joined or has created. If the game ends the client sends a response to our api and posts the results.

2nd Way: All is managed through the client (like most games). Within the client the player can create or search for matches. If the match ends same way as 1st way.

For my feeling: The 2nd way sound better because the player only needs our website for looking at his ranking/managing his account.

And now it's up to you. I look forward to your responses to this.

Greetings

bimbam2103
Back to top
View user's profile Find all posts by bimbam2103 Send private message ICQ Number
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Goto page 1, 2  »